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   USSVI BOD Online Meetings -> Minutes - BOD Online Meetings-Aug thru Dec 2017Message format
Posted 2018-01-06 3:01 PM (#14215)


Posts: 250
Location: Russellville, Ar 72802
National Commander John Markiewicz opened the 2017 October online Board Meeting at 0856 on October 9, 2017
Please take a Moment of Silence for Our Departed Shipmates.
Tolling of the Boats for October
1. Base Insurance Support (currently $25 per Base being mostly ignored) for USSVI National Liability Insurance. (Requested by: Paul Hiser & Ray Wewers).
2 Letter of support to Artificial Reefs International (Requested by: Ray Wewers).
3. Update on New Website (Requested by: Steve Bell).
4. Other previously un-submitted business.
5. Adjourn.
JOHN MARKIEWICZ---The first item on the Agenda is Base Insurance Support (currently $25 per Base being mostly ignored) for USSVI National Liability Insurance. Since both our NT, Paul Hiser, and our NS, Ray Wewers, requested this Agenda Item, I will recognize them in that order to present their proposal and any motions they may have.
PAUL HISER---About Jun 2015, the BOD approved a $25 liability insurance fee. About 2/3 of the bases paid for the period Jun 2015 to May 2016. Most have not paid from Jun 2016 to May 2017 nor any for Jun 2017 to May 2018.

Roughly $4000 is now due to the National Office. I move to require all Bases to support the National Insurance Liability Policy at the rate of $25.00 per year and suspend any support payments for 2016; and require bases to pay for 2017 and 2018. Any monies paid by Bases in 2016 would be applied to 2017. Moving forward, Base Insurance support payments would become due and payable on January 1 of each calendar year.

This Liability Insurance Policy protects USSVI. We have seen each year the policy costs to increase which makes this even more important in support of the National Budget.
STEVE BELL---In order to get to the discussion phase I second the NT motion
JOHN MARKIEWICZ---We have a motion and second to require all bases to pay the $25 per year support to USSVI National for the Liability Insurance Policy. We will now open the discussion phase on this motion.

I will not discuss whether we should or should not require the Bases to pay the $25 per year as I wish to remain impartial on this issue, however, my recommendation is that we should not make any effort to go back and collect the non payments for 2016 and 2017, but should instead focus on 2018 and whether the Board wishes to continue the requirement of $25 per Base for 2018.
STEVE BELL---I am not sure that being a "requirement" is the correct approach. This is quite a bargain for a large base such as Groton Base however, it is not as good a deal for a base like Ponce de Leon (9 members). However, should such a small base desire to help us offset the cost of the policy, I would not have an issue with that. But making it a requirement for them might be going a little too far.
WAYNE STANDERFER---When we announced earlier in the year that this liability insurance policy would not be renewed, there were numerous complaints from the base level stating they wanted to continue having this coverage. To comply with
PAUL HISER--- I quote from the minutes of the Mid Term 2016 Business Meeting:

Al recommended that each base be assessed $25 per year towards the policy we now have. This assessment will be much cheaper for a base than requiring each base to obtain their own insurance for each activity. Our policy premium is now $10400 per year and this way the 160+ bases would cover approximately ½ the cost each year. Some bases have been approached and none had any concern with this approach. This policy covers any attendees at any base activity and meetings. The policy does not cover vehicles or trailers as the policy is a limited liability policy only. All base floats and trailers should be registered in a member’s name and not the base. This will ensure that the member’s insurance covers the trailer and float when it is being towed to a parade or any other event since once the trailer is attached to a vehicle for tow the trailer and float are covered by the tow vehicle insurance policy.
Motion made by Mike Naughton to assess each base $25 per year to assist in paying the insurance premium to cover all base activities. Motion seconded by Ken Nichols. Motion approved with one opposed, Dick

To address concerns for small bases, an exemption policy could be adopted such as " Bases with 20 members or less is exempted". Currently, the Support Period runs concurrently with Policy Renewal Dates. This now is simply moving to a calendar year rather than mid term.
This policy covers all USSVI members in the event they are held responsible for injury to a third party or destruction of property during a scheduled USSVI event. Parade Floats are not covered if attached a personal vehicle and this would fall back on the vehicle owner’s liability insurance.

As with any liability insurance, hopefully it never comes into play, but if the need arises it is there to cover our organization and/or the individual held responsible. Shipmates, a Base contribution of $25 per year is a hell of a bargain for that individual Base.

It would be virtually impossible to expect full compliance from all of our Bases, but hopefully enough of them will understand that contributing this small amount each year helps considerably to offset the cost.
LES ALTSCHULER---I have no problem with every base paying $25.00 towards the liability insurance
BILL ANDREA---I go along with the assessment of $25.00 per year from each base, but also concur that bases should not be assessed for 2017 or prior years.
STEVE BELL---Regarding the smaller bases, instead of exempting them, maybe just make it optional for them. Some can afford it but for some it might be an added burden for them. I know $25 is not much, but there are some bases out there that don't have much in their accounts.
AL SINGLEMAN---Shipmates, when I came up with the idea of asking the bases to pay $25.00 the main idea was to have the bases run a 50/50 to raise the money. For small bases you can do it over a few meetings. The policy was taken out in June so Bases pay for 1/2 of 2017 and 1/2 of 2018. Next June we ask for another $25.00 as that would be for 1/2 of 2018 and 1/2 of 2019. You need to put out a POC explaining the whole idea about sharing the cost of the insurance the cost, the payment and when its due and send out a reminder about the whole process in May of 2018.
WAYNE STANDERFER---To simplify what Paul is asking for and to make payment schedules easy to understand;
He is asking that we run the coverage times from Jan 1 to Dec 31 instead of policy start and ending dates.
Bases that paid $25 any time in 2016 will be credited for Jan 1 thru Dec 31, 2017
Bases that paid $25 in 2016 and 2017 will be credited for Jan 1 thru Dec 31, 2018
If they did not pay anything in 2016, but pay in 2017 it will only be credited for Jan 1 thru Dec 312, 2017 and will owe $25 again on January 1, 2018
Any excess payments over the above will be credited for following years.
Any base with less than 20 members is officially exempt from payments, but may pay on a volunteer basis if they desire.
STEVE BELL---After what Wayne said, which makes total sense. The current motion on the floor does not reflect this. Shouldn't the current motion be rescinded and a new motion made to reflect this?
I withdraw the current motion on the floor.

PAUL HISER---I move to require all Bases to support the National Insurance Liability Policy at the rate of $25.00 per year to run concurrently with the business calendar year as of January 1 of each calendar year. Bases whose membership are twenty or less members are exempted from this requirement. However, if they wish to contribute, it may be done on a voluntary basis. Bases who paid their respective payments in 2016, will have those payments applied to 2017 support payments. Bases who paid in 2017 but had not paid in 2016 will have their payments applied to 2017 support payments. Bases that paid beyond 2017 time frame will have their respective payments applied to the respective years, e.g. 2018, 2019, 2020 at the rate of $25.00 per year. Effective January 1, 2018, all bases except those Bases who have paid for calendar year 2018 and beyond are due and payable on January 1, 2018.

As a matter of clarity, the intent of the motion is to move the time frame off of mid-year policy renewal time frame to calendar year that currently runs in the June to May time frame. It also provides relief to small bases with little or no assets. This motion provides clarity to Base Leadership as too when such support payments are due and payable.
STEVE BELL---I second the new motion by the NT?
MICHAEL WILLIAMSON (WD6 COMMANDER)---Are Internet Bases exempt?
JOHN MARKIEWICZ---please vote aye in favor and nay if not in favor. As always with eleven voting members of the Board it takes six votes in the affirmative or negative to pass or fail a vote. I will leave the floor open for voting until 10am (Eastern Time) tomorrow morning.
WAYNE STANDERFER---NSVC votes AYE to the motion stating:
All Bases other than the exceptions noted below, will be invoiced $25 per year to help offset the expense for maintaining a Liability Insurance Policy that covers third party claims for personal injury or property damage caused by USSVI or its members.

Bases that paid $25 any time in 2016 will be credited for Jan 1 thru Dec 31, 2017
Bases that paid $25 in 2016 and 2017 will be credited for both 2017 and 2018.
If the Base did not pay anything in 2016, but pays in 2017, it will only be credited for Jan 1 thru Dec 31, 2017 and will owe $25 again on January 1, 2018 to cover 2018.
Internet Bases and any Base with less than 20 members is officially exempt from payments, but may pay on a volunteer basis if they desire.
Any excess payments made over $25 will be credited to following successive years
A POC will be sent out explaining the above to all Bases.
JOHN MARKIEWICZ---Eight of eleven possible votes have been cast in favor of the motion. You have passed the motion
JOHN MARKIEWICZ---The next item on the agenda is regarding a Letter of support to Artificial Reefs International. All presentations, motions, seconds and discussion on this topic will take place as a reply to this post only
"I write to seek a letter of support from the United States Submarine Veterans, Inc. for the USS Clamagore Artificial Reef Project and the On Eternal Patrol Memorial Reef proposed for Palm Beach County, FL.

Joe Weatherby and myself attended the conference and displayed the USS Clamagore Artificial Reef Project and The On Eternal Patrol Memorial Reef. We had hoped to spend more time with all of the attendees but the potential of Hurricane Irma cut our time short as Joe lives in Key West and I live in Sarasota .I know we met Commander Markiewicz at the USSVI conference. While we met a lot of great people at the USSVI convention in Orlando last week and I am not sure if we had a chance to talk with Commander Standerfer.

You are aware that the USS Clamagore has reached a condition where there are only two real options; to scrap her and end her life, or to use her as an artificial reef for fishing and diving and give her another 100 years of service and story. Almost to an attendee at the convention there was acknowledgement and acceptance of the plan to create a reef.

An addition to the project is our proposal to create the 'On Eternal Patrol Memorial Reef'. We intend on placing an individual memorial reef honoring each of US submarines still on Eternal Patrol around the Clamagore once she is on the bottom. Here is a short video showing the plan for the On Eternal Patrol Memorial Reef;

The support of the USSVI leadership, bases and members will be an important contribution to both projects. I am writing to ask if it would be possible to get an email list of the bases and their point of contact. We would like to ask the bases for letters of support for the projects and to keep the membership aware of the progress the project is making. It is important to us to keep your membership updated and involved in the Project. We do not sell, trade or share this information with any other organization.

We appreciated the opportunity to meet the members of a great and meaningful organization and we thank all of the members for their service and sacrifice.


George Frankel
POB 3811
Sarasota, FL. 34230

While I have no personal objection to generating a letter of support for this project should all other efforts fail to save the Clamagore, as I suspect that they have, I do not believe our membership would want us to release our POC email list to anyone. I would suggest, if we are in favor of providing the letter of support, that we might make the Charitable Foundation, Memorials Fund, the point of contact for this and that any message to our POC email list would be generated through them. As Chair, I will remain impartial on this issue and will not make a motion nor vote. I will now open the floor for
WAYNE STANDERFER---I agree with John on not releasing a listing of our members contact information and to generate a letter of support. Also,as with any other project of this nature it should go through the Charitable Foundation. I move that we accept John’s suggestions as to how we handle this request
PAUL HISER---NT Seconds the motion
JOHN MARKIEWICZ---We have a motion and a second to provide a letter of support to Artificial Reefs International, not to release our POC email list, and to refer this to the Charitable Foundation as the point of contact for communications with the Bases through the POC system at their discretion.
I will now open the floor for further discussion on this matter until 5 pm Eastern Time, at which time I will call for a vote.
STEVE BELL---Since this motion has a direct impact on one of the bases within my region, Charleston Base, I feel it necessary to comment on it. Several members of the Charleston Base have made (and still are) various efforts to not only get money to "Save the Clamagore" but also trying to get efforts accomplished politically in order to keep the ship in the Charleston area. Unfortunately, the effort they are trying to accomplish requires significant funding of which I personally have doubts that that much money will be able to be raised (but I could be wrong as well). The effort cited in the motion seems to be a good way to give the Clamagore a good home for many years to come along with the Eternal Patrol Memorial this group intends to do. My concern on them as well is funding, but that is their problem and not ours (fortunately). It just might be time for all of us to face the real facts of life and chose the most economically feasible and honorable route for the Clamagore and move forward. I am sure this route will not sit well with some of our Charleston Base brothers, but it just might be better than the other option that will probably come about
MARLIN (BASE COMMANDER SMOKEY MOUNTAIN BASE--- I oppose this move. I am the base commander of the Smoky Mountain base, CD5 commander, and Vice Chairman of the USS Clamagore Preservation and Maintenance Association. We recently received a promise from the Knox county mayor of property should we acquire the Clamagore. East Tennessee has no military history museums and if you look at a map of submarine museums we sit in a large void. Please consider that only a small number of people will be able to see the boat and a home in East Tennessee would fill a void
JOHN MARKIEWICZ---As I stated in my original recommendation, which is the basis for the motion from NSVC Wayne Standerfer, the letter of support would indicate that we support Artificial Reefs International proposal as an alternative solution should all other efforts to save the Clamagore fail and it comes down to scrapping her or sinking her as an artificial reef
LES ALTSCHULER---The issue of saving our museum submarines is very close to me, I've been working my tail off for very many years to save the USS Ling in Hackensack NJ. Reef Makers approcached us a few years ago but backed off when they realized that the Ling can't be moved due to a lack of water in the river and that we are fighting to preserve the boat as a museum and not turn her into a reef.

What I don't understand is that it will take a lot of money to prepare the Clamagore to be make ready for sinking and that those monies could and should be used to dry dock and preserve the boat.

I believe that all of the museum boats that we presently have should be preserved and not scrapped or sold for reefs.
MARLIN (BC SMOKEY MOUNTAIN BASE)---I would request that if this happens that it is carefully worded to state that preservation for the general public is the first priority. This has been a long and frustrating process implication of an endorsement even an indirect one such as this will make it that much harder
I apologize as I know this is slightly of topic but, currently the key players (from my perspective) in acquiring the Clamagore as a museum are Patriots Point Director Mac Burdett (who is responsible for the contract with NavSea for possession of the Clamagore), Knox county Mayor Tim Burchett (who is supportive of our effort and is willing to provide land should UCPMA acquire the boat), the UCPMA, and now the USSVI. Mayor Burchett is running of the US Senate for Tennessee and is a big supporter of veterans in this area. If we are talking about a letter of support I would think that the UCPMA should come first. We have done a significant amount of work toward getting her not asking for money as land was the first requirement by Burdett prior to consideration of releasing the Clamagore back to NavSea for adoption. We now have land and the goal posts have moved for us with Reef Makers International entering the picture. I would rather you did not give Reef Makers a letter but if you do please consider giving UCPMA a letter as well.
JOHN MARKIEWICZ---When I call for a vote at 5 pm the choices will be:

Vote aye if you wish USSVI to provide a letter of support to Artificial Reefs International and designate the CF as the contact point.

Vote Nay if you wish USSVI to decline support and send a letter to Artificial Reefs International advising them we can not support their project at this time due to ongoing efforts to save the Clamagore by Bases within USSVI.

Since I am chairing this meeting, I will remain neutral on this issue and will not cast a vote
STEVE BELL---I was unaware of the ongoing efforts in East Tennessee. Maybe I am not in touch with the proper circuits, but just seems better communications would be helpful. Getting the land is a major step but I still have trouble wrapping my arms around getting the necessary funding to not only fix the Clamagore, but getting her to the Knoxville area. A great idea, but seems to be very expensive to me.
JOHN MARKIEWICZ---At this time I will call for the vote on the motion:

A Yes vote indicates you wish USSVI to issue a letter of support to Artificial Reefs International and to designate the CF as the contact point.

A No vote indicates you wish USSVI to decline to support and to issue a letter to Artificial Reefs International advising them that USSVI can not support their proposal AT THIS TIME due to ongoing and continuing efforts on the part of some of the Bases of USSVI to save the Clamagore as a memorial boat.
WAYNE STANDERFER---NSVC votes “NAY” to submit a letter of support to Artificial Reefs International.

The reason I am going against my original motion is, I was not aware of the ongoing negotiations between the USS Clamagore Preservation and Maintenance Association and other Tennessee officials to acquire the USS Clamagore with the intent of making it an inland memorial. Voting NAY will have the same effect as going through the lengthy process of withdrawing my previous motion and revising it. We need to give these shipmates and their supporters an opportunity to acquire the USS Clamagore if possible.
JOHN MARKIEWICZ---Six votes of an eleven possible have been cast as no votes for the letter of support to Artificial Reefs International. The motion has failed. I will notify Artificial Reefs International that we are unable to support their proposal at this time due to ongoing efforts on the part of several of our bases to save the Clamagore as a memorial.
JOHN MARKIEWICZ---The next item on the Agenda is an update on the progress of the New Website/Database. This will be a briefing/update only and no motions nor votes are anticipated.
AL SINGLEMAN---John,I have a phone call with Mike this afternoon at 4PM for an update etc. Right now he has some feedback from 6 members I had looking at the data base. Let’s move on to the next agenda item and I"ll report when you close the next item
JOHN MARKIEWICZ---The next Item on the Agenda is to open the floor for other business not previously submitted for the Agenda.

Ron Martini has requested to address the Board regarding the History of USSVI and the need for us to appoint a committee to review the archives.
RON MARTINI….History is written by the winners. Where is ours?
I attempted to find and preserve the list of Officers from 1964 to the present. Good luck with that! I have 4 separate lists of just NCs. PPM, Wikipedia, Russo/Baessler, Doc McCance in his very nice book, “USSVI The First 40 Years.”
….I was told by Wayne via Al that records were inadvertently destroyed back in 94-95. So the only source we have is A/S Magazine. But my disk is short 15-16 issues. They were (what was then available) scanned by Greg Stitz. But Greg moved shortly after that job was done. They may be in the file cabinets sent to No.Little Rock by John Wynn some 5-6 years ago. We don’t know. Have any Bases sent materials there? I am suggesting a committee check this out and inventory what is there. John and USSVI put out a plea a year or two before they were sent for the Bases to send materials to him. Did it happen?
….Ray is looking for Charters. They may be there also.
….If all magazines are located and copied, then perhaps Peter Koester with my help can fill in some holes. And it is just not the correct NC list, it is SV, JV, Treas and Secretaries. When did the magazine change from National Submarine Review to American Submariner. When did we move away from State Commanders. Was Joe Negri the first National Commander? Two of my four lists say no. One said Bob Link was the first “elected” Commander (called President way back.)
WAYNE STANDERFER---Ron has brought up a subject that has been discussed and re-discussed several times in the past, but never acted on. At the present time we have a National Archives and Library Committee Chairman who is Joe Mathis and a Historian who is Peter Koester, why can’t these two positions be combined into an effective committee that can work on restoring the history that has been lost.
In not being familiar with exactly how our relationship with MIT works, I can’t comment on that, but we need to talk with Joe Mathis and get a report on where we stand at this time with his archiving, either with MIT and/or his work on the barge and use that as a starting point to correct this long overdue situation concerning not only documentation on our past history, but archiving as a whole. We don’t need to keep moving this to the background any longer
JOHN MARKIEWICZ---I concur that we need to move this to the front burner and see if we can get something done with it.

I agree that Joe Mathis on the Archives Committee and Peter Koester as the National Historian are the logical ones to work on this project, however, I would also add National Secretary Ray Wewers, both because of his interest in Charters etc... and because of his proximity to the Arkansas Inland Maritime Museum (AIMM), where the Archives are located. I do not know the status of Joe Mathis and how much or little time he has to devote to researching the history of USSVI, since he has other employment responsibilities in running the AIMM.

Perhaps the local Base can find some folks interested in assisting in volunteering to research and inventory the Archives in the interest of resolving some of the questions and gaps in our history.

Since this is a forum and everyone is not necessarily logged on at any given time, I am going to leave the floor open for questions and comments from the other Board Members when they have a chance to log on and respond. Since we have no other known issues at this time and will not have the info for the website/database update until later this evening or in the morning, let's leave the floor open until 9 pm Eastern Time this evening for discussion on the History/Archives.
PAUL HISER---One other reference source regard USSVI may be found at :,_Inc.

This website provides some historical perspective that may or may not be entirely correct.

Only the website host "Wikipedia" would be in a position to provide answers regarding content; and who may have been the source of the information published
Wikipediia is a great tool. My problem with it is that it was entered by one person. It was not Pat as I have already asked him that. Don't know the source. But again, I have 4 lists of National Commanders. Which is correct?
LES ALTSCHULER---John, I have a question for Ron; If he can provide a list of what issues he is missing I'll go through my back issues. I've kept many of the issues since I joined in 1981.
RON MARTINI---I have only 1 from 1968, none from 69-70, only 2 from 73, 1 from 74, 2 from 78 and 2 from 91.
Thanks Les
Needs or holes that I have. One problem is the number of issues/year. Some years only had 2 issues, some had 6.
Anyway here is what I need:
2010 #4
1978 only have Jan and Oct
1976 Jan
1975 Sept or Oct (whichever it was)1976 I have Apr, Jun, Sep
1974 I only have Jun
1973 I have May and Aug
1970 need all
1969 need all
1968 need all
1966 I only have May-This is the first I have. Don't know if it was the first or not.

Can someone chek with Frank Whitty, Herb Saunders, Jim Page, Joe Ruddarow if they are not on Eternal Patrol.

In one of the first issues I have a picture of Bob Link turning the gavel over to Joe Negri
AL SINGLEMAN---Ron, Mike Bircumshaw has all the old Submarine reviews and American Submariners on CDs. Give him a call and ask for a copy.
BILL ANDREA---Echoing Wayne's thanks to Ron for bringing this up (again). In the past several times since our archives program has been questioned or queried, it always resulted in either little or no response or inadequate or vague response (to my knowledge).
JOHN MARKIEWICZ---At this point I am going to close the discussion on this topic. Since the Archives and history of USSVI should come most directly under the responsibility of the National Secretary, in my opinion, I am going to appoint NS Ray Wewers to chair a committee to inventory the Archives and to research some of those historical issues that have been discussed. I would expect that he try to recruit two or three members of the local Razorback Base to assist in this project who might have the time and interest to meet with Ray and to put in the time to physically go to the site and complete an inventory and do some research into this project so important to the history of USSVI.
At this point I am removing the Update of the Website/Database from the Table and re-opening the topic on the floor. I have asked IPNC Al Singleman to give us a brief update of where we are at as of today. He has agreed so to do by tomorrow morning. While he is expecting a more complete update in the next few days, he can send that out by email to the Board once it has been received.

As I have been advised of no further business to be brought before the Board for the October meeting by the members of the Board (many of whom remained absent causing us to barely have a quorum necessary to vote) it is my attention to adjourn the October Online Board of Directors meeting tomorrow after this update has been posted.
AL SINGLEMAN---Shipmates,today at 5pm I have a conference call with Mike McTaggart to go over a list of issues that have to be resolved before we can go live. I had about 6 members review what has been done so far and the results have been positive. There were some corrections and suggestion made and these have been past on to Mike. After today's call I'll send out an e-mail with an addition update that should include the target date for going live. I still would like to test the new system offline before we go live so we do not have to make corrections on the fly. The good news is that what I have reviewed looks good and we are very close to where we need to be.
STEVE BELL---This is encouraging. I would like to ask the question regarding the scope of work. Have we gotten outside of the original scope of work such that we are going to have additional costs to this project? And if so, do we have any idea of the cost increase
JOHN MARKIEWICZ---In reference to the new website/data base, when IPNC Al Singleman sends out his latest information to the Board next week by email I ask that he include any additional expenses anticipated.
Having passed through our order of business as set out in the Agenda and having received no further requests to present other business, I will now proceed to close this meeting.

It has been noted that there have been very few agenda items proposed and very sparse participation in our most recent online BOD meetings. Perhaps we are meeting more often than necessary. Since there is no requirement that we hold a monthly BOD meeting, it is my intention to shift from Monthly to Quarterly BOD meetings for the remainder of my term of office as National Commander, with meetings occurring as follows:


In the event that something comes up requiring action that simply can not wait until the next Quarterly BOD meeting, I will call for an emergency meeting either online or by telephone conference call to deal with that issue only. Board members are encouraged to contact NSVC Wayne Standerfer or me should they become aware of an issue they believe necessitates a special or emergency meeting.

Additionally, the first order of business for the Online BOD meetings will now be a roll call of the Voting Board members to ensure we have a quorum. While we do not require you remain online for the entire duration of the Online BOD meetings, Voting Board Members will be expected to log on at the opening of the meeting and at least once per day, preferably more often, thereafter for the duration of the meeting so that they are aware of the discussions/business being conducted and to be available to vote.

That being said, I now declare the October 2017 Online Board of Directors Meeting Adjourned.

The next regularly scheduled meeting will be convened online on January 8, 2018 at or about 1pm.
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